When Jeremy Kaufman, vice president of IP at Netflix started out, he worked at a law firm.

While there, he noted a clear “upstairs-downstairs vibe” between trademark attorneys and paralegals.

“Trademark attorneys for the most part had their own offices and paralegals didn’t,” recalled Kaufman. “Trademark attorneys had their own meetings and paralegals were not invited.

“It occurred to me that although I was a trademark attorney, I didn’t know what I was doing and any paralegal could do laps around me.

“I just accepted that was how it is. I had my degree and that was the hierarchy, but it always struck me as slightly odd.”

This issue was unpacked at a lively seminar at the International Trademark Association’s Annual Meeting on Monday, May 3.

Speaking in “Moving beyond the ‘lawyer/non-lawyer’ hierarchy to improve your IP team” Kaufman said it was not until he joined Netflix—with what he called its “unique structure”—that he realised things could be done differently.

Sharing the stage was living proof of this approach, in the form of Kaufman’s colleague Ali Buttars, head of global trademarks and brand protection at the entertainment company.

Buttars, who comes from a paralegal background, is not an attorney. Yet, she rose to a senior role within a multi-billion-dollar company, despite not fitting the traditional mould.

In describing her journey, Buttars said it helped that earlier in her career she had been pushed by managers to “do more, think more, be more strategic”. Her bosses were more interested in her skills than her educational background, she recalled.

What she found interesting was that both her bosses early in her career—Ann Chen, senior director, assistant general counsel of litigation, enforcement and strategy at Transunion, and Stephen Coates, a partner at Coates IP—started as paralegals before going to law school.

“Because of that foundation, they opened doors for me that I didn’t even know needed to be opened,” she said, adding: “I’m so grateful to them for their mentorship.”

Feedback culture leads to changes

Kaufman said that when Buttars joined Netflix in 2017, he had a small team, a growing workload, and a major need to create a trademark strategy. This led him to think differently about who could do what within the department.

Netflix’s “very open” feedback culture prompted Kaufman’s assistant to question why non-trademark experts were not involved in the trademark team’s decision-making.

“This started to shift my thinking to ‘why is that? It doesn’t make any sense‘,” said Kaufman.

He began a strategy of seeing colleagues more in terms of their skills than their job titles. In this context, when Buttars was given the task of implementing it, she became an embodiment of this new thinking.

Kaufman said empowerment like this was a key aspect of breaking down the hierarchy within a business.

“To me, one of the key parts of empowerment is delegating. No matter how interesting the task might be, it’s about stepping back and letting someone else on the team take ownership,” he said.

Buttars said the approach of Netflix’s leadership had influenced her management style. “I got to model their behaviour in building my team,” she said, adding that now, she is able to step away, direct work to experts within her own team, and let them make decisions.

Overcoming nerves

Asked by Kaufman how she dealt with any nerves that came from the responsibility placed on her, Buttars answered honestly.

“I was extremely nervous. I wasn’t familiar with how different trademarks were at Netflix,” she said. “But it set me free and now I thrive on it.

“Not everyone is in a safe space like at Netflix where we focus on innovation, failure, and learning from that failure. I feel safe with that responsibility,” Buttars added.

How does she find the courage to speak out when people further up the hierarchy are making poor decisions?

“It’s not going in and tearing down the room with a different point of view,” suggested Buttars. “It’s saying: ‘I’ve had a thought about this’ and pointing out possible blind spots in the thinking, bringing that to the table and poking and prodding each other. By having that debate we get to the best result.”

It’s not about your grades

Having a diverse and inclusive workforce means being aware of the barriers erected by educational attainment requirements in a hiring process, the pair explained.

Today, Netflix’s talent strategy in some roles removes all educational requirements, preferring to hire candidates based on other factors such as expertise, judgement, and business experience.

According to Buttars: “Taking all that out has been very important in opening the talent pool, because there can be an amazing trademark professional out there who might not apply for a role that I need because they don’t have a BA, college degree, or paralegal certificate.”